תלמוד על עירובין 8:1

Rav Hoshaia asked: If he brought a plank²⁷A solid wooden plank. While it is of vegetable origin, it cannot be used for thatching if it is too wide since it is impermeable by both light and rain. The pillar is standing in the middle of the sukkah. One may either sit under the protruding plank or on top of it. and put it protruding on top of a pillar. It is obvious that if he measures from the plank there are twenty cubits, if he measures from the ground it is not twenty cubits²⁸But more than that.. How do you treat this? As disqualified space, as disqualified thatching? If you are treating it as disqualified space, it disqualifies by three hand-breadths²⁹If it cannot be used for thatching, cf. Note 13; Halakhah 10.. If you are treating it as disqualified thatching, it only disqualifies by four cubits³⁰If the roof is made of solid material, only in the center there is a skylight which can be covered by thatching; this may be a qualified sukkah if the solid material does not extend 4 cubits from the walls. The solid roof then simply is considered a horizontal part of the vertical walls.. Rebbi Yose ben Rebbi Abun in the name of Ḥizqiah: Disqualified thatching only disqualifies by four cubits, since it serves only to permit the sukkah³¹Babli 4a.. Rebbi Miasha said, I am wondering what was Rav Hoshaia’s problem? Why does he not infer from the statement of Rebbi Abba bar Mamal, since we stated there³²Mishnah 1:10.: “If one makes the wall hanging from top to bottom, if it is more than three hand-breadths higher than the ground it is disqualified³³Up to three hand-breadths of empty space are disregarded both on top (Note 13) or on the bottom of a wall. The wall is considered as if standing on the ground.;” and Rebbi Abba bar Mamal said, if he does not sit and eats in the shade of the walls, but if he was sitting and eating in the shade of the walls it is qualified³⁴If he sits on the ground in such a sukkah, it is as if he sits in the open. But if he lies on a couch or sits on a chair higher that 3 hand-breadths, he is surrounded by walls and is under a thatched roof, fulfilling the commandment to sit in the sukkah. Similarly, in the case of Rav Hoshaia, one should say that if he sits on the ground, the sukkah is disqualified, but not if he sits on the plank.. Rebbi Yose said, that of Rebbi Abba bar Mamal is not an inference since Rebbi Abba bar Mamal learned it from another Mishnah, as we have stated there³⁵Eruvin Mishnah 8:9.: “From a balcony above the sea one may not draw water on the Sabbath unless one made a partition ten hand-breadths high either above or below³⁶The house is on a lakeshore, the balcony is built over the lake, and there is a hole in the balcony through which a pail may be lowered to draw water. While obviously water is always moving and it cannot be asserted that water drops found under the balcony on the Sabbath were there at sundown, and the water could have come from outside the house’s Sabbath domain, since the restriction is purely rabbinic it is enough that under the balcony one make a symbolic wall whose extension would enclose the water..” And Rebbi Ze`ira said, Rav Jehudah in the name of Rav: Only if the partition is lowered into the water the full length of a pail³⁷A quote from Eruvin Chapter 8 (Notes 73–80). Since water is always moving, it is impossible to know which molecules will be where at a given time. The answer is that this is irrelevant; at the time the pail is lowered it will draw water only from water on the house’s side of the partition lowered into the lake.. But one cannot compare it. The sea is karmelit, neither private nor public domain³⁸A technical term defined in this sentence. Cf. Šabbat1, Note 73.. But here the Torah said, in sukkot you shall dwell¹⁸Lev. 23:42.. From the floor of the sukkah you measure twenty cubits³⁹In all cases. R. Abba bar Mamal’s statement is disproved..

Does it need a partition⁷²Following R. Jehudah, is the space under a bridge automatically private domain? The roadway represents a roof; does one say that the borders of the roadway define imaginary walls (as stated in Chapter 1, Notes 40,42), or does the definition of private domain imply the existence of actual walls (which seems to be implied by Šabbat 16, Note 84)?? Rebbi Abba said, it needs a partition. Rebbi Yose said, it does not need a partition. The colleagues said before Rebbi Yose, does Rebbi Abba not say it correctly? As we have stated⁷³Mishnah 8:7., “Rebbi Jehudah says, a partition should not be more than the wall between them.” He said to them, there⁷⁴In the case of the Mishnah here, where the roadway is a roof., where there is a roof, it does not need a partition. But here, where there is no roof, it needs a partition, as Rav Jehudah said, if it is open to an agricultural area⁷⁵He notes that R. Jehudah considers the area under the bridge as automatic private domain only if that domain is bordered by karmelit; if it were bordered by public domain in the biblical sense, even R. Jehudah would require actual partitions (standing or hanging.), but if it is open to the public domain it is forbidden if there are no partitions, but if there is a partition it is permitted.

It is obvious that an eruv needs a house¹⁶⁴Mishnah 8:4. The eruv is valid only if deposited in one of the houses of the courtyard for which it is intended, cf. Note 128.. Should a participation need a house? ¹⁶⁵This text was written by the scribe but deleted by the corrector. S. Liebermann points out that the correction is erroneous since it is needed to understand the text and is quoted by Rashba (col. 448) from his text of the Yerushalmi. The Babli 85b explicitly disagrees with this ruling and excludes the airspace of the alley.(Rebbi Aḥa in the name of Rav: One may put it either in the airspace of a courtyard or the airspace of the alley.¹⁶⁶In each clause the second בֵּין is redundant and missing in Rashba’s quote.) The word of Rav implies that an eruv needs a house¹⁶⁷Since he authorizes airspace only for participation.. The word of Samuel implies that participation needs a house. A baraita of Samuel disagrees with him: Participation may be put into the porter’s lodge¹⁶⁸A baraita recited in Samuel’s academy, explicitly disagreeing with Mishnah 8:4 (quoted by Tosaphot 72a, s. v. בפת).. Rebbi Abun bar Ḥiyya, Rebbi Abbahu in the name of Rebbi Joḥanan: one may put it either in the airspace of a courtyard or the airspace of the alley.